Monday Night Magic #159 – M10 Rules Rodeo!
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This Week in Magic
We have Conley, Gavin and Eric joining Tom this week to discuss the bomb that landed on Wednesday with the rules changes that come with M10. Read the full article here and the main rule change people are discussing is a change to combat that combat damage does not use the stack. Obviously lots of controversy, but some good examples and discussion to be found here. You can also read thoughts from Zvi Mowshowitz on Top 8 Magic, Randy Buehler, Power 9 Pro. We have also seen the new M10 dual lands and a few new cards (yeah Acidic Slime!). The 7th year anniversary of MTGO runs from 6/17 – 7/15 with a bunch of special events. A review of the comments on Zendikar from Mark Rosewater (no pirates or dinosaurs). And the July FNM promo is Murderous Redcap.
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A little part of me died when I heard Ghost Counsil just became worse. I love Ghost Counsil… T_T
Old complexities are being replaced by new complexities. The combat step has different complexities now and your decisions on attacking and blocking are still there, just at different times and with different possible outcomes. Seriously, how complex was it to stack the Mogg Fanatic’s combat damage and then sac it? Not very if everyone knew that was the right play. Tricks still matter. You still have to make strategic decisions, it’s just that the terrain has changed. The parameters are different, but those vital, strategic decisions are still there. Are you smart enough or tricky enough to get them right under the new system? Don’t confuse a loss of familiarity for a loss of complexity. Map out a pre and post rules change scenario and I think you’ll see that the new concerns you have to put up with now that you can’t put damage on the stack easily take up the space of those lost because you could put damage on the stack.
Also, read the Ferret’s article today. He does a great, great job of defending why action should have been taken.
And all the design space that opened up because of these changes will allow for some different cards to come up in the future. Will they make old cards obsolete? Sure. But that happens all the time. New cards replace old ones as the best ever. Remember Morphling?
Could use more discussion about First strike/Double strike in the new M10 rules.
Otherwise, a nice podcast.
http://www.bizarroworld.com works btw… i think it would be epic if they reprinted the ravnica duels, it would make it work really well with the new duels… o, and i have been mentioned in 2 pod casts this week ^_^ i was also mentioned in the mana pool
as for the M10 changes, i hate the combat changes, but it will work. i want them to now make effects that shoehorn mana burn, because it would be epic. and other then that its all good.
as for the deathtouch exception, the logically it works because 1 damage is lethal, therefor you can spread it how you want.
On the comment about how the Pro Tour gives people something to aspire by, this can also backfire. When the Grand Prix came through our city years ago I was able to talk to or witness quite a chunk of the major players back then… the whole day was an eye opener let me tell you. While waiting between rounds and getting to talk to some of these guys (some who are still highly respected), I saw some HUGE egos and poor attitudes. One pro commented how he hated the Magic community and only did it for the money, one commented how they never wanted to come back to my city as there wasn’t anything to do within walking distance of his hotel, one threw an absolute HISSY FIT when people crowded around the results board and he couldn’t see his pairings. Let’s just say the close quarters with our “All Stars” actually kept me from working so hard to try and qualify. While some of these guys are really nice and legitimate, I can’t tell you I’d go out of my way to go to a Pro event ever again.
Changing the wording to “At the beginning of the next end step…” seems strange to me. If they are trying to simplify the game for newer players, why is this rule/functionality still kept? To me, it makes just as little sense that a creature can throw a punch then disappear from the battlefield and still have his punch land, as having creature that says “at end of turn sacrifice this” last for two turns or having “until end of turn” last longer than “at end of turn”. I know the new wording will make this more clear, but it doesn’t fix the fact that trying to explain this to a new player is just as hard as combat damage on the stack.
I have personal experience with this when 6th edition rules first came around and my friend had a white weenie deck. Once he figured out the rules for Waylay, it was basically a white Ball Lightning and it left the rest of us confused as heck. I’m not convinced that the new wording makes this any easier for new players to understand.
Great to hear Gavin on the cast again. Personally i love the new duals, sure they aren’t the greatest for aggro but I for one am tired of 3,4, and 5 colour aggro decks in standard having such consistency. I think the new lands have been designed really well, and hopefully they’ll steer people back towards two colour decks.
Any chance of a list for that deck you guys were talking about at the end, by the way?
This is in regards to the section of the cast where you guys are discussing Wizard’s reasoning for adjusting the rules to suit more of the casual players.
Personally, I can agree that its a bit odd they said it adds “flavor” to the combat with the changes, just because there truly is a blurred line between what’s flavorful and suiting the gameplay, as to what is flavorful and just really doesn’t seem to make sense. I see this all the time with Warhammer players, As i myself and my playgroup are Warhammer players.
The other thing, i really don’t see it as they are dumbing it down for the casual players because they want to make the rules “easier” for the casual player. Really I see it as wizard’s strategic way to be able to transition a “casual” player into a tournament player.
We’ve all been there when were new to the game, and throughout our games we were informed by friends and opponents of your play mistakes, or even just suggestions. Like it was mentioned, you know saving that removal spell for when you really need it, like a terminate and use it at the End of your opponents turn as opposed to during your turn.
Its just the smaller things that we pick up that we all generally see in all sports, as you progressively play a game you pick up tricks and suggestions from those who are playing the game as well and you apply those same tactics/ideas to your gameplay as you advance further through practice/play/testing.
The regen rule is really odd, i can agree, but i think one of the reasons they kept it is to add a flavor to the gameplay through it. Like for example your creature prepares for the attack and then after the damage it takes, it is still re-cooperating and unable to do any further actions as a price for being able to survive a lethal attack. But that’s my two cents in regards to why they haven’t mentioned removing it with the new rule changes.
Also, thanks for letting me know about morph not using the stack to counteract against split second, you learn something new every day.
Btw for those EDH players….Upwelling just got interesting with the new rules, well at least there’s no downside for playing with it, that’s for sure.
The M10 rules changes are a pretty big deal, but I’m disappointed that the week after PT:Honolulu we have both Gavin and Conley on the show and we hear almost nothing about their experiences in Hawaii. The M10 discussion was lengthy and interesting, but still maybe it could have been like 5 minutes shorter so that some PT talk could have been squeezed in?
When I first read about the combat change, I thought “okay, fine, they’re making combat more intuitive. That’s good.” But after listening to the cast, I agree with Conley. I don’t see how doing stuff with damage on the stack is less intuitive than anything else in Magic. I mean what is the flavor of Mogg Fanatic’s and Sakura Tribe Elder’s abilities any way? From the art, I can’t really tell how Mogg Fanatic does his damage — does he drop out of an airship and land on someone or is he holding a bomb there? I would think that even after a fight in which he received mortal wounds that Mogg Fanatic could still probably blow himself up if he were holding a bomb or fall out of an airship onto somebody if that’s how he works.
Still I think we will all get used to all the changes especially once they start designing cards within the context of the new rules. The one change that really bothers me is “battlefield.” I really wish they had chosen something shorter, eg simply “field.” I worry about cards like Mogg War Marshal which are now going to be a mouthful:
“When Mogg War Marshal enters the battlefield or is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a 1/1 red Goblin creature token onto the battlefield.”
vs
“When Mogg War Marshal enters the field or is put into a graveyard from the field, put a 1/1 red Goblin creature token onto the field.”
I hope all those extra syllables don’t discourage R&D from making cool cards like Mogg War Marshal
How about… “Whenever Mogg War Marshall enters or leaves the battlefiend, put a 1/1 token onto the battlefield.” Almost the same as the original wording.
Eric is planning on interviewing me about the Pro Tour, so we wanted to let him get fresh information rather than talking about the same stuff discussed on the show. Look for that later this week.
You can also check out my article on TCGPlayer.com for a few stories from Hawaii among other Pro Tour related stuff
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=8452
I’m looking forward to that interview. Congratulations once again Mr. Conley. I actually suckered a friend of mine into watching the whole webcast just for your games. I’ve been a big fan of the work you’ve put into sharing your deck building ideas. You’ve helped me connect the dots on more-than a few occasions.
Best of luck in all your future endeavors.
Conley, you said you’d try to break through a few months ago and now you really did become a pro. Great work, that’s all I can say.
I look forward to the interview.
*Conley’s first official fan*
@Lord Faust: yeah, that seems acceptable. Hopefully, Mogg War Marshal and friends are good to go in the post M10 world.
One more thing from the cast — I disagree with Conley regarding Stoneshaker Shaman. It may be worse against an unknown deck now without mana burn, but it’s still not useless. It’s still the poor man’s red Teferi against control decks — they have to tap out on their turns or lose lands. And now the red deck doesn’t have to burn itself (or play with mana sinks) to avoid the Shaman’s drawback itself.
thank you very much for the packs… i got a dauntless escort, and a meddling mage ^_^