Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 1:53:17 — 38.9MB)
Marshall and Ryan welcome cube experts Thea “@wmap” Steele and Usman “@usmantherad” Jamil for a Q&A on building, sleeving, shuffling, and playing a Magic cube. Don’t be a square, make a cube!
Limited Resources is proudly sponsored by Card Kingdom! Check out www.cardkingdom.com for competitive prices and top-notch service. Fill out the holes in that cube with the help of Card Kingdom!
Contact Godot on Magic Online if you’d like to join the Limited Resources clan!
Your Hosts: Ryan Spain and Marshall Sutcliffe
MTGO (Ryan): Godot
MTGO (Marshall): MalachiConstant
Twitter (Ryan): @modogodot
Twitter (Marshall): @MarshallLRcast
Show’s Email: limitedresourcespodcast@gmail.com


I totally punted the “what’s a card that you think is overrated/underrated in peoples’ cubes?” I defaulted to Skittles to try to segue into talking about how understanding how to not fall for BCSM is one of the most important skills for a cube designer, but I don’t think that worked too well. If I had to redo it, for overrated, I’d say Rude Awakening (I much rather prefer Terastodon and Woodfall Primus for 8 mana finishers since it doesn’t necessarily do much when it isn’t cast FTW. I’ve found that as my cube has gotten faster, Rude Awakening has gotten worse. I’m REALLY hoping the green Praetor is a good green finisher as well and not something with infect) and for underrated, something like the usual cast of characters of aggro cards that people don’t run because they fear the drawback, cards like Sarcomancy, Wild Dogs, etc.
Aside from that, it was a blast to do and was awesome.
Likewise, I didn’t quite get a chance to answer that question, but what I wanted to mention was white Akroma. That’s a card I thought was a staple, but when I cut it, I haven’t missed it even a little. I wouldn’t say that it shouldn’t be run, but rather that people shouldn’t think they need it. I think that’s a case where the more castable creatures are so strong that it’s not worth having the bigger monster that you have to really work to get into play (and it doesn’t help that some reanimation doesn’t work with Akroma).
I might have some insight for you guys on building a block or standard (format) cube. I’ve already got a regular unpowered cube, but I just wanted to do something interesting/different for a “cheap” cube rather than the typical common or common/uncommon cube. So I took all of the recent sets from M10 onward and instituted a size limit from each set to pull cards from, at each rarity, per color. For instance, for a large set like Zendikar I allowed/forced myself to include 12 commons, 6 uncommons, and 3 rares from each color. Worldwake is a small set, and has half that many (and only 1 rare).
Just going through the motions and deciding what cards end up in/out of the cube leads to some interesting things I noticed about the sets/colors in general, from a design/restriction point of view:
- Each set and color definitely has varying levels of power, or “deepness” at a given rarity. This is immediately seen if you start building and do a filtered search on the Gatherer or magiccards.info for a specific set-color-rarity. For instance, a small set only has 7 commons per color. I have to use 3 of them. This can feel bad, because some colors are really awesome and I can’t use them all, and some colors simply aren’t good.
- Once you filter out a lot of the crap in each set, you’re left with something like 70% creatures (for a normal, non-mirrodin block), even when you bias yourself torward including the most powerful spells/removal first. This leads to having no shortage of playables in a draft that feels very much like regular limited.
- You have to throw some rules completely out the window for lands (fixing) and artifacts, especially if you include the Scars of Mirrodin block. I had to make new rules for the M10/M11 reprint interactions too. At this point, the rules are almost too complicated to be worth it, but I don’t spend much time with this in the first place, and there are never any changes to the cube down the road barring other reprint/core set situations. The core of the cube will essentially never change, and you could always change it up from draft to draft using a “make your own standard” once you include enough sets to filter some out of the draft.
- Scars of Mirrodin block basically gives an XBox achievement for infect, since there are few playable infectors and I had to include some anyway due to rarity, but a few are worth playing anyway.
- Removal is fairly scarce, since it is no longer “common”, and there are nearly no wrath effects. Red and white are good choices if you like removal.
- White is really strong in general, since it gets the bulk of the good fliers, and cheap removal. Black and Blue get a surprising amount of fliers as well. (They all get a 3/2 flier for 4 mana, in fact)
Now, I put some additional restrictions on that cube that I wouldn’t necessarily recommend to someone using a Standard (format) cube as their only cube. You can definitely tailor it to have a more balanced draft situation, by culling the cards from whatever rarities you want. But basically, for me it was an exercise to see if it would work, and for the most part it does.
I’m still working on getting my blog up and running, but I’ll have it up at some point as well as my regular cube. (http://thecubemiser.wordpress.com/)
Also, I’d be pretty interested seeing how a Kamigawa block cube works out, since I never played it originally, and I love the flavor. In the back of my mind I’m thinking about doing one without the singleton restriction.
RE: Sleeves – I’ve been using matte UltraPros for a while now and haven’t had major issues with sleeves breaking. They’re one of the few I’ve tried that don’t “brick” up on me and refuse to side shuffle smoothly, too.
Great podcast everyone!
Usman’s story about the guy stealing worthless cards from his cube has similarities to something that happened with our cube group. Our group (mtgcube.com) took the cube to Grand Prix Portland to play after people were eliminated in the tournament, and the next time we cubed together we noticed that the Mox Jet was missing. Too bad for the thief it was a proxy
It’s unfortunate that sometimes you can’t trust people to give you back the cards you’re lending them for their enjoyment.
Great podcast guys.
I think I’m going to try to build a cube now, but I’m going to avoid the Analysis Paralysis thing. I don’t have a pile of sweet rares, so I’ll just throw some cards in together and call it good. Then I can start tweaking it.
I’m pretty sure the next time I hear someone overusing the word “like” in an MTG podcast that I’m going to smash my face through a window.
I thought Usman and Thea did a nice job, and that the cast was fairly entertaining. Some thoughts:
- I thought the advice for new cubers was a bit over the top (the hosts did a good job of reeling it back in). The first advice that should be given to new cubers is to just start cubing. Getting bogged down in the details is what prevents people from ever getting started. And how many people have you ever known to start cubing and stop? Thea gave the best advice here, which was to start small.
- Thea, you have a MTGO cube? That just blows my mind with awesomness. Is the list posted anywhere?
Keep up the good work!
Yeah, I think that’s what ends up making people not end up making a cube – when people are overwhelmed with info. Granted, when Marshall said that I forgot what it was like when I started a cube, that was incorrect, since that’s exactly what I did when I made a cube (reverse engineered several cubes, decided on constraints [I immediately decided that Kird Ape was red-green]) and went from there.
There are a lot more resources nowadays, so copying a list is probably the right call nowadays (gratuitous plug for my list here – http://idratherbecubing.wordpress.com/cubes/usmans-cube-all ) and to adjust from there since aside from allowed rarities, cube content is pretty flexible (adding power doesn’t require too much in terms of changing content aside from those cards.)
Alex, thanks! My online cube list is here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-cube-drafts/darksteelecube-bonus-cards/
It’s still changing (as I get new cards for it, basically- not being able to proxy is a big difference from real life), but I think this iteration is pretty decent.
As always, great cast. You inspired me to commence round one of revisions to my cube.
As a Cube drafter, I’ve been disappointed that Limited Resources only talks about the current tournament format. but no more! this was a great listen, and I’ll be checking out The Third Power and seeing if that’s up my alley.
Thea, I was shocked at the lengths you go to to make Cube drafting work with MTGO. I thought that Netdraft was the go-to solution when trying to play a format that MTGO doesn’t support. Is there a reason that you don’t use that?
FWIW, this was our second cube podcast. The first: http://www.mtgcast.com/?p=6817
Thanks! I’m surprised I missed it when exploring your archive.
Netdraft is just a drafting program, right? I’m not sure why it would be any easier than tappedout.net- especially since it requires a download, whereas tappedout is web-based. Do you mean Netdraft + MWS? I think some people are trying that- basically drafting the same way I do, but playing the games on MWS or Cockatrice. Obviously that’s a reasonable solution too, but when I started doing this there were a few reasons I thought MTGO would be better- I wanted to make videos, and the interface looks marginally nicer. And I wanted this to be an example of how you can play other formats on magic online, and also an example of how much interest there is in such a thing.
It might sound like a lot to describe it, but in terms of effort and time, it’s pretty comparable to a normal draft except that one person does all the shuffling
Yeah, I guess Magic Workstation is more what I was referring to there, since the drafting process is pretty much the same whether you use Netdraft or tappedout or any of the other drafting sites/programs out there. Everyone has all the cards loaded already on MWS so you don’t have to go about distributing ‘actual’ cards so I thought it would be more convenient and that you may not have heard of it or something. Cube drafting on MTGO would definitely be awesome and I hope Wizards implements it officially.
Long ago, I tried going drafts on Tapped Out and then on MWS, but it’d be a pretty huge struggle to even get a 4-man going (I think I had one going once.) I’ve considered doing drafts on Cockatrice but haven’t had time to get familiar with that program. Still an option though.
I did plenty of drafts on twitter on tapped out but when it came to actually doing the matches on MWS? You could hear the crickets. Quite awkward and annoying.